Infantry Officer to Clinical Research Project Manager

You got it. Yep, that's exactly right.

Yeah, I mean, I was a, I was a 10th Mountain guy, Fort Drum. So yeah, I spent all my time at Fort Drum.

Once you're at Fort Drum, you don't get to leave.

they pretty much kinda conscript you for a while.

yeah. I grew up, grew up in Minnesota, went to, went to college in Minnesota. you know, played hockey, spent my time on the pond, and typical Minnesota, you know, youth, childhood growing up there.

Yeah.

Yeah, I was there for... I mean, outside of being at,you know, Fort Benning for, you know, training, yeah, all, the whole time was, the rest of the time was at Fort Drum.

Or, you know, being deployed. Yeah.

Yeah, I mean, I was t- typical stuff. You know, it's an interesting story, though. When I first, got to Fort Drum, I was, the, the battalion I went to was, on, on block leave and, it was block leave before a deployment.

So I showed up, you know, new lieutenant with, no experience just right before a deployment and, everybody was gone and, At the time we were supposed to go to Afghanistan, and during block leave that was changed from, Afghanistan to Iraq. And we went from being a, an, a completely light infantry battalion to all of a sudden now we're a motorized infantry battalion.

And, there wasn't a whole lot of people around to make that conversion. And so that was my introduction to, "Hey, Pete, why don't you, figure out how to get all these, vehicles and weapon systems and mounts that we've never had before in our MTO and get them, not only into the battalion, but also get them, to the rail head."

And so we could get them, you know, on ships. And so it was my... that was my unofficial first job was, trying to organize that chaos and,paint a picture, that entailed me, envision all a bunch of vehicles at a rail head, you know, around, surrounded by fencing. And, now you have all of your, you know, stickers and the numbers that need to be on the vehicles, and you gotta get them on there.

You know, it's the last day. They gotta get on there before, before they go, on trains. And, somebody locked all the fencing, so couldn't get in. And I had no s- and I had no soldiers to do this work either. So, the only person I had with me was my wife. And, and we were crawling, we were pulling up the edge of the fencing, crawling underneath to, to, paint, spray paint numbers on vehicles, you know, 12 hours before the vehicles go onto, onto the rail head. So, you know, what did my- What could go wrong? What could go wrong there? Well, yeah. I, they all made it there. They were, they were in pretty rough shape 'cause nobody wanted to give us good stuff, you know?

Everybody gave us their used, beat up stuff. But, we might've had to jumpstart some things and push a few on, but we got them there. so when you ask what were my jobs, well, I don't know what you'd call that. but that's where I started. And,

Yeah. Well, it- So it started-

Yeah. You know, I mean, we could come back to this, but there's something I tell a lot of veterans today is, you know, there's one thing that you are good at, not only good at, you're probably great at, that you don't even realize, especially senior NCOs, is- Identifying and mitigating risk.

and, a- and I like to throw in there calling BS when you see it. especially for senior NCOs. Yes. But, like, you know, that skill set to identify and mitis- mitigate risk, you know, at the time I didn't think about that as project management or anything. I was just, this is what I needed to do and, you know, baptism by fire.

So yeah, for

Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. So, yeah, I mean, your question was what did I do in, you know, what did I do in the Army?

I mean, typical stuff. Yeah. So, you know, platoon leader, you know, company executive officer. And then, I ended up being a, a rear detachment commander. so, you know, as a young O-3, we were in that time period of, like, '06, '07, and, I was a, an, an O-3 and a new captain. And, you know, just like Fort Drum, you can't get out of.

Once you were in a unit in that timeframe, it was difficult to leave a unit because they needed every body. Mm-hmm. And so as a senior O-3, where, okay, where are you gonna stick everybody? You need all these bodies, but where are you gonna stick everybody? And nobody was really going to school, going to the Career Course, or just going to anything.

So I was on a, 25-mile road march, and, my battalion commander walked up to me and said, "Hey, Pete, I think I'm gonna have you be our rear detachment commander," which at the time was a gut punch. You know, it was kinda like, wait a minute, what'd I do wrong?

And he said, our division commander's guidance was to leave the, you know, leave an officer that's gonna hurt, that's gonna feel like it hurts to, to leave because what we're about to do is going to be traumatic, and we need somebody that we can trust.

And so I ended up in a rear detachment command- Positioned for 18 months, and it was probably the hardest thing I've ever done. we had a few hundred... If you're familiar with Afghanistan and, you know, you, it sounds like you are, Mike. our battalion was in Kunar in, in '06, '07.

and so we had, you know- in the, you know, 250-plus range of, you know, casualties, you know, across the battalion task force probably, you know, over 20, you know, KAs, I think, just in that battalion.

Mm-hmm ... and an extension of six months, in that deployment.

And on top of that, our battalion footprint on Fort Drum needed to move from one location to another, which was an infantry battalion into a field artillery unit's space. And if you know field artillery, they don't have as much individual equipment, so their arms rooms are smaller.

And now I have... And their barracks were supposed to be reha- rehabilitated, so- ... there was a lot going on at the same time. It's, it was, And you had no resources and money, so here you go, Pete. Mm-hmm. Make it all work.

I mean, I had, yeah, nobody, and if the people that I did have were wounded, you know?

Yeah. And so now I'm, you know, "Here, guys. Like, we're gonna paint some walls," you know? Like, that's great for a guy that just got shot, you know? So-

It was,I mean, it wasn't traumatic in that, in the sense of what, you know, our boys are doing down range. It was just very challenging. You know, from a project management perspective, there are a lot of different competing priorities and different things and, you know, yeah.

So it was a good introduction to a, a different type of management than, you know, managing at a, you know, the scale I had been.

I mean, tech- te- technically, yes, it can. i- in terms of what... Or it could at the time. in reality, no, you know, in terms of promotion and that kind of thing.

So I needed to go back and command, in order to stay. I really needed that command time, which I did not, I didn't take in, in, in active duty. I left and went into the Reserve,

it ... and I did not take the, the active duty command. It was, Yeah, it was time. I knew it was time for me to leave.

I had been offered to take a command a- you know, from the same battalion right when they came back. You know, no career course here. we'll pat you on the back, you can go and take this command and deploy. but again, there was gonna be no ability to go to the career course, which in the end was gonna kind of bite you in the butt because now you're way past your timeframe to go to the career course.

And so anyway- Yeah ... long story short, I just looked at a lot of- It's impressive ... a lot of factors and went, "You know what?" I mean, I watched a lot of... I went to a lot of funerals and, I was kind of, I was kind of over that- Yeah ... that point. Mm-hmm. So. I

I mean, maybe I could have worked it.

I mean, I was... it ended up, you know, a lot... Again, I mean, when you say rear D a lot of people will get, have a perspective of it. I know what it was when I was there and what it was for. and, I don't know that... I think I could have recovered some of that time and I could have done well in terms of like, you know, I mean, all my OERs and all that kind of stuff were very strong.

So like, I think I probably could have recovered, but I mean, I don't know. I mean, that's who- Yeah ... who knows. It was 20 years ago, so does it really matter

yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, I'm sure that everybody thinks that they're in a scarcity, you know. There's never enough. There's never enough money, there's never enough time, there's never enough people. You know what I mean? It doesn't matter what you have. But, but yeah, I mean, those were, y- you know, platoon leader in Iraq and, you know, when I was in, y- you know, we were in Fallujah for the majority of that time.

And so, like, you know, early in the war and so, like, all of those really shaped my, my perspective on, on project management, going back to risk mitigation, risk identification. And-

even in clients, you know, I'm in real estate today. We can kind of talk about that journey in a minute, but, like, even my clients today, when I first meet them, I tell them, "Look, I look at things from a risk perspective.

I look at things from what's the worst case scenario, and then, you know, can we live with that? And, you know, let's evaluate that worst case scenario and then work backwards." And I- ... you know, it's may sound pessimistic, but actually it's a very optimistic, you know, perspective 'cause it frees you and it frees your ability to think if you're not worried about what the risk or what the problem is.

It actually opens up your mind.

And so,

Yeah. You're never worried about the boogeyman 'cause you've already talked about the boogeyman. Right.

And, you know, I even in ... I, you know, it's funny, when I was on the rear detachment and I remember talking with a spouse that had lost her husband, and I'll never forget the conversation. She said, "You know One of the best things that he ever did for me was plan out everything that needed to be done if something happened.

And it wasn't the basics, it was down to the, you know, dot your Is, cross your Ts.

And so she, they planned for the worst case scenario, and it made her life significant easier, significantly easier than everybody else that I ran across who was in a similar situation. So, you know, the, when you ask all of those little things, all those little experiences that I had absolutely shaped from, you know, combat operations in Fallujah to working with, you know, spouses that are, of, of- Yeah

essentially friends, you know?

Right.

Yeah, I mean, absolutely. I mean, I think you mentioned transferring risk. I mean, that's a hu- I mean, in the private sector, the ability to transfer risk. I mean, you think about what is insurance?

It's just a transfer of risk, right? So, like,

Yeah, getting a r- exactly. You know? and,we're constantly transferring risk in our life. And, you know, there's no difference in managing projects. you know, b- before being a realtor I, you know, we'll talk again in a little more detail about my- overall, like real project management background.

But yeah, in terms of like mitigating and who's the risk owner, right? And those things don't go away. is it my client because it's their decision, and we've walked through and like they own it, and they know they own that, they own the risk that they're making the decision? Or is it me because, you know, it's my plan and, you know, I've got to make something happen?

yeah, so I mean, I- You know, when I fell into the private sector, one of the, the leaders of, the organization that I was in, he was a, a retired O-6 armor guy, and there's very few people like me i- in the organization. In fact, I was pretty much one of one. And,

and he,he really structured a lot of...

He was the VP of operations for this, this company, and he really structured everything around some of the just MDMP, you know, basic, you know, almost c- you know, company grade, field grade, you know, level, planning, and it just made a lot of sense. And I think what they were looking for when they hired somebody like me was how do you implement...

you can teach that to people-

but until they see it and they feel it, they don't fully understand it. W- you know, we took adv- we took, in the military we kind of take for granted the culture around us that we're talking about, that understands and really everything is about risk. and you can kind of see it, touch it, feel it.

But you go into a private sector, and that's not always how they operate. And so I think they were really looking for how do we integrate that mindset into the operations of our business. I didn't know it at the time. Somehow I ended up getting hired there and but over time, that's what I realized or what was different about me, because I didn't have the technical background.

I didn't have the PhD, the, the credentials that a lot of the people around me had, and they would often... I had to kind of reflect on what, what made me different? Why am I succe- why am I just as successful, if not more in some cases, than some of my peers? How am I, how is this happening? And it's all of this kind of mindset that really what drove me to be, you know, fairly successful for somebody without the technical background.

Right. Yeah. It goes from, comes from crawling under fences, and by the way, it was also raining when we were trying to paint those numbers on the vehicle. So yeah, it comes from stuff like that, you know? Yeah.

You got it. Yeah. yeah. So anyway.

Yeah. yeah. Good question. so yeah, I ended up in, Yeah, I transitioned at about the six, a little over six-year mark and went to the, went to the Reserve.

real estate came in 2019, so I started a real estate business in 2019 and, hung my license with a firm. So between, in, in those years in between, I ended up, growing in project management in clinical research. So I became a project manager leading the clinical development of, new drugs. So, pha- typically phase three clinical trials, you know, working for,a CRO.

If you're familiar with the CRO industry, they're- ... essentially contractors to the pharma industry and they manage, the execution of clinical trials, which can be quite complex, and the deliverable is data. We, you know, we go find the doctors- ... recruit the doctors, consult on the protocols, you know, find the patient populations, design, you know, work with our team to design a collection of data, collect the data, package it all back up, hand it back to them, and they can take it and take it to the FDA is kind of the very simplistic realm that I ended up in.

So- So I have no science background whatsoever. My last science class was in high school. So- So ...

Yeah. total happenstance, you know? It was not a planned, exit strategy at all. I,I was visiting some soldiers at Walter Reed, and I was in that timeframe or in that period of like, "Okay, I think I'm gonna get out."

And, you know, at the time there wasn't any of the resources that we have today in terms of transition. It was, you know, you're gonna have to really hunt for a job. And there was a Military Officers Association of America job fair in DC.

And I knew n- nothing about it, but I thought, "Well, I might get out.

That sounds like something I should go to." So I went to it. And it's funny, and I'm s- I didn't even realize. I was, "Oh yeah, this is where the Pentagon is." There's a whole lot of O-5s hanging out in this, you know, and like senior, you know, and E9s that are hanging out in this job fair, y- you know, and then there's me, you know?

And I'm walking around and meeting people in boot booths and there's a company there that just looked different. And I wasn't even really that engaged with them. I was trying to talk to somebody else. And that, that VP of operations for the company,at the time the company's name was INC Research, today they're Syneos.

they're a lot, much larger organization. Mm-hmm. and, He just asked me what I was planning on doing, and I said, "I have no idea." You know? "That's why I'm here." And so we got to talking and, after a 15, 20-minute conversation he handed me his card and said, "Hey, when you're ready to get out, give me a call."

And I kept that card, and I didn't really think much of it. And I went down a lot of different rabbit holes, and one of the things that I kept kind of coming back to was, you know, the, a lot of the things that I was finding were very much the same. Some flavor of similarity. Mm-hmm. And they never really seemed different or interesting and I've always been a guy who wants to do something that's just

I- it doesn't have to be super special, but just the traditional paths never really fit well.

Mm-hmm. So, you know, going to the Home Depot leadership program and this program and that program for, you know, company grade officers, JMOs. Like, none of that stuff really seemed interesting.

And, so I called them back up, got an interview, and you know, came to Raleigh, North Carolina one time, and then they offered me a job and I said, "Okay.

let's do it." And that's is it. it was, a very, very- Was

that- Yeah. Yeah ... a slightly different role entirely? I, exactly. So the role I was hired for was an entry level project manager role. so I showed up. They literally handed me about six books just off the shelf.

He's pulling books off his shelf and says, "I think you should read these." "Okay." So I- ... I read a handful of books, so I understood a little bit about clinical research and what it was. I mean, very elementary. And then I shadowed a couple of people for a few weeks. There's no training program, no, no handbook, no PowerPoint slides.

I mean, the ... I took the thousand slides, you know, things that you need to take for the company, but nothing that was really relevant to like, this is how we do work. and still didn't really understand it, and found myself on a- leading, funny enough, baptism by fire. So it was a, a rescue study, so meaning the company had rescued it from another company that was failing with it.

a small compound. It was a biotech, and, it was a mess . And that's the project that I got handed and said, "Here."

None. not a lick.

Yeah, I mean, yeah, I mean, I mean, I- With

it was stressful- ... because like I... And people will ask me, "Well, how did, what did you do? How did you do this? Like, how did you figure this out?" 'Cause I didn't even know the nouns.

I mean, I didn't even know- ... the words . Like, I didn't know anything. And- Here's

Yeah, exactly. If something's failing, we'll see. If he fixes it, we'll keep him. If not, he's gonna go.

Yeah. Yeah, exactly. So he- what I did was I found the shell of an MS Project timeline for this project that wasn't really well done from the prior company.

And, it had all the different functional sections. So we had biostatistics and data management and clinical, you know, labs and vendors and, you know, 1,000-line MS Project timeline And I didn't understand any of it. But what I did know is that I had specific leads. I had functional leads. I had somebody with a PhD in, you know, in biostats who's been doing this for 12 years.

So I'd call up Bob, the biostats guy, and say, "Bob, let's review the timeline." And then I'd say, "Hey, let's l- let's look at, let's look at how this all links together. What am I missing? Okay, is that really supposed to be linked right here?" And that's how I developed my knowledge without telling everybody I didn't know.

I mean, they probably knew that I didn't know anything, but, like, I felt like I was being secretive. And I just, that's how I figured it out, is I just spent time with all the functional leads building that and then talking with them about the tasks and how they're interrelated and what risks there are.

And like, "Hey, wait a minute, this should've been done before." And that's how I built my knowledge, is just- ... institutional knowledge from them, and that's how I learned the nouns, and I just, I dug in and spent that time on the phone. and once I

Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I didn't... Whether or not I would've done that if I walked in there with, knowledge of the industry, would I have done it the same way?

I mean, I don't know. That mean, that... But I didn't ha- It was a fun- it was a forced function of my reality, is that I couldn't do anything because I didn't know the words. And you know, it's funny because a, a couple times things came up in, in, right around that early timeframe, the, that same VP of Operations guy, he came to me and he said, "Pete- He said, what's the difference between combat operations and clinical research?"

And his name is Jeff, and Jeff's a pretty rhetorical guy. Great guy. Very, but very r- sometimes you're like, "What? where are you headed with this?" Like, I have t- I have no idea. So what's the difference between combat operations and clinical research? And I finally said, "Jeff, nobody's shooting at me right now, and that's great."

And he's like, "Nah, Pete. It's the nouns. The verbs are exactly the same." And he walked away, and he turns around and he says, "Learn the nouns, Pete." And that was it. I mean, that's, that is literally it. And fast-forward, you know, a few years down the road, you know, I still don't... I know what I'm doing, but I get put into these d- different projects all the time with different indications, different diseases, different things.

And, a- and I'm not an expert in that indication at all, but I have to understand the protocol for that. You know, it's a 80, 100, 200-page document. I have to understand that protocol and what it's asking our company to do. And it's very, you know, laden with medical terminology. So I would have to go th- I would go through it and highlight.

I'd read the whole thing, highlight everything, things that I didn't understand, that I thought sounded important and I need to know more about. And we'd always have, you know, a, a medical doctor that was a thought leader kind of person who's assigned to that project. So I'd just say, "Doc," like, you know, "I need two hours of your time or three hours of your time, and I'm just gonna ask you all the dumb questions that I have because I don't understand everything."

And I remember at one point going through this really technical document and coming to the realization like I looked at him and I said, " This is literally the equivalent of telling me like sometimes a, a blind squirrel will find a nut." And he's like, "Yeah, pretty much." and I'm like, it's just words. it's literally just you can understand anything.

It's-- I mean, barring like high-level mathematics that's, you know, sending rocket ships out to space. But like for the most part, you can understand just about anything if you just accept that you don't m- don't know the nouns, you don't know the words-

and you learn them. And then you can use all of that experience of putting pieces together that you did when you were downrange and, you know, doing, you know, whatever it was in the military.

And I, I ended up growing a veteran hiring program for later, a, another company that I had moved to in the same industry. And, and they would ask, They, when I would interview people and I would talk to them, they- They just lacked the context to really understand what we were doing. Yeah. It wasn't that anybody, missed. They had the experience, right? They had the ability to lead. They had the ability, and it was just helping them identify, hey, you can apply whatever it is that you've done.

It doesn't matter if you're a submariner, an infantry officer, a coastie, i- even the Air Force. but you can apply all of those things here. it's really not that big a deal.

Yeah. Yeah, I mean, it does. It's, Yeah. I mean, I,it's funny, yeah. You look at my background and you think, "Man, how do these things all interconnect, and how do they all weave together?" And in, in there are some that we haven't talked about. I owned a franchise business. I grew it, and I sold that as well.

Oh, wow. I did get a PMP. I got an MBA. You know what I mean? Like, I've done all the-- I've touched all the bases, you know? And the thing that I've learned, ev-even in the pharma space, you know, I got into, you know, working a lot with our business developers and, you know, standing in front of, you know, pharma execs and r- you know, essentially running and bid defenses and developing strategies to sell $100 million programs.

And, you know, I've touched-- You know, I've, I've-- I help people sell homes, I help people buy h- buy land and sell land and develop land. The thing that I've l- I've learned is that, look, if you can... Kind of bringing in another, another aspect is, and I, that I talk to a lot of veterans about, you know, there's this, this thought of like, "Oh, do I wanna sell or do I wanna be a project manager?"

And I don't think it's either/or. I think maybe you wanna have experiences in both because I think if you think of yourself as only a project manager- Well, if you're a leader in the military, you spend a lot of time selling. You just don't know it because you have to sell ideas and concepts and where you're gonna spend money and where you're gonna send resources, whether that's resources on a large scale in terms of look, you know, where are we, where...

How are we building and developing new submarines to how am I getting equipment around the battlefield, right? you're selling ideas and you're selling thoughts. You have stakeholders. So if you're a great project manager and a great logistician, but you can't sell, you're limited in what you can actually do.

If you're a really good seller and you don't understand how to manage something You might be able to sell, but you've put the, your team and your company at risk because you can't deliver. So if you're a really good project manager, you should probably be a decent seller. And if you're a good seller, you should be a good project manager.

they're not all... It all comes together. There's no secret behind it. There's nothing new. It's like CrossFit, right? Like CrossFit's exercising, right? People have been exercising for a long time. I loved CrossFit, did it for 10 years. But squats, deadlifts, you know, jerks, wall balls, people been doing those for a long time.

It's nothing new. It's just put together, packaged in a new way. I mean, and I think that's the way a lot of, like, veterans should look at what their future looks like, is you're just packaging yourself up in a little bit different way- ... a unique way. It, there's nothing new to what you need to do in order to be successful.

Yeah. Yeah, absolutely, you know?

And I mean, I was fortunate enough. I mean, it's, I kind of fell into a, a career. I mean, I interviewed all over the place. It wasn't like I just was like, "Oh, well, this landed in Pete's lap." I tried to avoid that form of stuff and try to do something else. but I ended up in that career path and I used it to grow.

I realized that I was getting a, I was getting a really good education in private sector project management. I got an ability to learn the organization. So when people are looking for opportunity, you know, as a, especially as a veteran trying to find their way in project management, you really don't have to land somewhere that you think aligns directly with your background.

Even if there's a little bit of a link there, that's great, but it doesn't really matter. The, 'cause the nouns don't matter. I don't care if you're running, you know, clinical R&D, or you're running construction project management, or you're run- what- or you're running a new, you know, software development.

Whatever it might be, the, it doesn't really matter. And go get that experience And learn how the company, what the company values. I always like to say figure out how they actually make money Because once you figure out how they're act- like, it doesn't... Like, a lot of people focus on themselves and say, "How do I become the best project manager?

How do I become... how do I grow in this project management career?" There's one key in that. You kept saying I. The company doesn't care about I. The company cares about money. The care- the company d- really doesn't care about your growth and your development. I don't care where you go. I don't care what the tagline is.

It doesn't matter The company exists to make money, either as a private company and return maybe some dividends, or to increase the value of their sharehold- for their shareholders. That's it. So position yourself in project management in a way that you're managing projects that can impact how the organization makes money, and where you can learn so that you can then turn- in turn become invaluable to the organization.

Because you learn how they are managing margin and how they are managing money. Now you become an asset to the organization, and the ultimate goal of your career growth comes from that perspective, not from, "What's the next certification I get? Because the next certification I get, now I should get paid more money."

Nah. go figure out how they make money and grow. Anyway, I'll get off my soapbox. Picking

Right. Right.

you know- I, I transitioned into, i- into real estate, right?

And, It's been a, an, an, a, a very good transition for me in that space. And, It's been another, another kind of bookmark in the kinda growth of project management.

I mean, it's been maybe even more of an exclamation mark on everything that we've been talking about because you think, "Okay, well, like how does real estate even come close to managing like clinical trials or being an officer in the Army? Like, how does that even relate?" but it really is exactly the same.

I mean, so, you know, people can go out and do things on their own or do things that are kind of alternative career fields and still find, you know, the use of their skillset, you know, in, in, in delivering value for clients and managing projects and yeah. So I mean, there's just, there's a plethora of stuff that people can do that is, not necessarily exactly what you think of when you think of project management, PMP, PMI, you know, Institute.

You know, these are the companies that project managers work at. there's just so much opportunity out there. so yeah, I'd encourage folks to kinda keep a very broad perspective of how you can use your skillset.

Yeah. So thanks for asking. so I did start a... Well, I didn't even really plan to. I started, a nonprofit called Raleigh Veteran Connect. I started as, really from that time when I was in the corporate space running a veteran hiring program and realizing kind of a lack of context that a lot of veterans have.

when I didn't hire somebody, I would, I would tell them, "Hey, you know, I didn't hire you not because you're not talented, but because I just don't think you're gonna like it here, and here's why." And I'd give them two or three reasons why. And I told them, you know, especially these veterans, I'd say, "Hey, why don't, why don't I connect you to two or three people who I think would create, some value for you?"

would you like that?" "Yeah, of course." Long story short, word kinda got out that I knew a few people. And so a lot of veterans were just passing my name around saying, "Hey, call Pete. he might know somebody for you to get connected to."

And that kept happening, so I finally decided, you know what?

let me see if there's other networks out there that are, that c- that I can broaden this, I can just at- attach myself to. And honestly, I didn't find anything. I did- I found a lot of pedigree-related stuff, you know, if you were a MARSOC guy or a JSOC guy, or you went to one of the, one of the academies.

But even those, when I investigated them, I found they were just more like social clubs. They weren't really helping people grow professionally and find opportunity. And so that's what I decided to do. I said, "You know what? Let me see if I can fill this gap." And, so I started with two or three people coming to an event, and now we have over 2,000 people in the network that, And it's a pretty active network. We have monthly events. We meet up and, we use, use, use the network as a resource to, find opportunity and to grow and to share a lot of things that we're talking about here. And, primarily former leaders in the military, so NCOs and officers in the network. And, you know, it's grown a lot just because of where we're at in Raleigh.

You know, we're very close to Fort Bragg and Camp Lejeune- ... and Seymour Johnson. So-

there's a lot of transient, you know, people coming and going and retiring from here, so, but yeah. And

Yeah, I mean it- ... kind

It's mainly local, or people who are planning to move back here.

So you know, people who are retiring out of Europe or something like that or, you know, maybe they're in Virginia Beach and they wanna move here, they have family here. They went to NC State or something like that or, they just liked it when they were at, you know... They didn't really like Fayetteville and Fort Bragg, but they liked the, you know, going to Raleigh on the weekends or something like that.

Or they... So there's a lot of that's, it, but mostly it's local. I've been asked can I grow that in other places? And my answer is no, because I don't have a network anywhere else. Right ... I'd be happy to help somebody figure out how to do it somewhere else, but I don't have a network in Colorado Springs.

you know, I can't. I don't know business owners and veterans in the community in Colorado Springs. So, but I do in Raleigh, so that's what made it, you know, successful

yeah. Yeah, it's been great. Yeah.

Yeah. Rah- if they just look... If somebody just looks up Raleigh Veteran Connect, you'll find the website.

We're on LinkedIn as well. you know, as long as you're a, a veteran, you're welcome in the network. please don't share it with your HR talent acquisition person that has no vet- veteran background, 'cause I get a lot of those. But yeah, you show up and you be the representative or send someone who is.

But, yeah, it absolutely, you know? And, if any, If anybody wants to buy or sell real estate in Raleigh, I'd be happy to be their guy.

Yeah, absolutely, guys. Appreciate it.